reinforced bythe simple observation that you have never actually posted here before[at least under your supplied handle/ID]. while walking down one of the NY streets, the background glowsbeautifucally. In a > case like that a pwerson would go through the various possibilities in his > mind, but he was kinda busy. The masked woman was played by a different actor but is the samecharacter. http://groups.google.com/group/alt.movies.kubrick/browse_frm/thread/16629c3d6011a459/705fb749859063b2?lnk=gst&q=treadmill#705fb749859063b2. ), Stalepie writes:"the only dreams in the movie are the one that Alice tells to Billand then Bill "daydreams' (thinks about) her having sex with thatsailor. Weve got a beautiful feminine version of the lead mask that features a baroque pattern and crystal embellishments, as well as a feathered mask similar to the > Sure, but they are half-whispered utterances from a woman in a> depressed, semi-conscious state after suffering a potentially lethal> drug overdose. Are you suggesting that the people running Somerton would let thewomen there know that there was an interloper? > anything and 2. never actually spoke (just some unintelligible > mumbling),<<<, > No, she clearly says "sorry" to Zeigler when he says "you gave us a scare > kiddo" and then Bill asks her, "How are you feeling now Mandy?" And if this firgure was Ziegler, why would he subsequentlysend a naked masked woman over to Bill for his benefit? Here was Stanley Kubrick, for many the worlds greatest living filmmaker, returning with his first finished project in 12 years a sexually provocative adult drama, utterly shrouded in secrecy, starring pre-eminent Hollywood power couple Tom When Bill goes to the hospital, he asks to see patient Amanda Curren (sp), the name he saw in the newspaper. -- Fred Brooks, I think I saw the "Rhizomatic" for sale on TV Late last night. Regardless of the different actresses in the credits, what I see is that the woman at the ceremony, who redeems him, apparently the "mysterious woman," has a small freckle/mole on her chest about 2 inches to her left side of center, above her breasts, which I think, can also be seen slightly on the corpse. Bill is ushered to a crowded room and unmasked by the master of ceremonies. It's pronounced Paw-rick, not Pad-raig. Before warning him, the Let him go! A part-time hobby soon blossomed into a career when he discovered he really loved writing about movies, TV and video games; he even (arguably) had a little bit of talent for it. ANSWER. Perhaps itwould have worked better if there had been a photo in the newsarticle. Technology has caught up with his disguises andcovers. The lost of public phones booths will kill off Superman, Dr. Who, and Colin Farrell roles. -Herodotus, You do not have permission to delete messages in this group, Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message, I thought the woman who ODd at the dance party (Mandy), the woman who, Well, in the interview with "Mandy" - I don't care to look up her name, Here is a youtube video of "Mandy" (Julienne Davis), singing in her band, I sent a message to the YouTube person who hosted those "Mandy" videos if. As though testing how well Bill's implanted suggestions had taken..????? WebSynopsis. In the spur of the moment people might first recognize voices, subliminally. It's just idiotic. Even had Alice found it in the cadenza, would > she have recognized it as meaningful and taken it?>> Even though much was 'cleared" up there are still major mysteries here. While the final movie was greeted with somewhat mixed reviews at the time, the appreciation for Eyes Wide Shut has only grown since its 1999 debut. In fact, the only actual dream in the film is unseen, is onlylater described - namely, Alice's dream/nightmare about having sexwith numerous men (strikingly similar to the fate of the women atSomerton) in which Bill is openly humiliated, and told to Bill justafer he returns from Somerton. > Mandy was not the same woman. There's also search enginessuch as Google where you can search for information. Why should we accept the 'reasoning' of someonewho Kubrick so openly portrays as a bullying, misogynistic thug (andalso, remember, there was no such character in Schnitzler's novel)?Alternatively, do the Somerton gang actually kill the masked woman atthe ritual, while the other woman (Mandy) at Ziegler's earlier partythen turns up - again as Mandy - at the morgue? I had absolutely no idea you were involved in any > way. 0. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<. >>>>>>>>>How would he recognise him, know him, given that they were all >>>>>>>>>wearingmasks? But which'party' is Bill referring to? > First of all, Mandy must have felt some connection with Bill since he was > showing her concern and kindness in the Bathroom. > > Similarly, when Bill reads the media report about an Amanda Curran> > suffering a drug overdose in a hotel, why does he immediately make a> > connection with his own recent experiences (and in a coffee shop/cafe> > that set-wise is actually the very same building that earlier served> > as Millich's Rainbow Fashions)? How manypayments of $19.99 was that, again?-- "History is a lie agreed upon." :>released around the same time, The Ninth Gate. Plus there is *no* *way* that a rare bookdealer would smoke anywhere near a book of which there are only threecopies in existence. However, as we might imagine, there were many who believed his death was far from natural. Please either stop > or> shape up. But examine the frame showing the overhead shot in the morgue, with all the shots of Mandy in the bathroom. Indeed, he appearsthoroughly confused: later with Ziegler in the poolroom, he asks, "thewoman at the party is the woman lying dead in the morgue." <<<<<<<<<<<<<>. > > On Jan 11, 6:50 am, dumb_n00b wrote: > > This may indeed be the case, but within the diagetic space of the film. > that unless they are encoded in single frames for analysis will alwasy be > a mystery. Again, how is it 'clearly' the same voice? I trhink Steven Lizberger is right. No, it was just set up that way, as a puzzle, so that there would beendless discussion. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<. That would not be valuable or insightful speculation, but a totaldenial of most of what happens in the film (another variation of 'it'sall just a dream', everything being attributable to the delusions ofBill's mind, a denial of the world of social power, similar to sayingthat everything that happens to Jack Torrance in The Shining is all'in his mind'). I recognized the voice of the > mysterious woman first time I saw the film.>>, >> it is clearly the same voice as the "mysterious woman." So why didn't Bill also recognise the identity of this masked figureon the basis of his eyes? It's not like > he is going to voice all his thoughts.>>>, >> >>>>>> But which 'party' is Bill referring to? That is what she was" implying that her deathis of no consequence because of the low-status manner in which Zieglerchooses to define her (an identity created and perpetuated by theZieglers of the world in the first place), earlier confirmed by hisdesire to get the drugged-out Mandy out of his bathroom and house("Can we put some clothes on her and get her out of here?" > People often don't make definitive connections between things at the > moment. While Polanski is the master ofparanoia, The Ninth Gate had too many things wrong with it. > It's totally clear the "party' in this reference, is Somerton. So is Ziegler lying? It's not like he is going to voice all his thoughts. - Ziegler> wasn't concerned about her health, just eager to get rid of her so as> to avoid any potential social embarrassment, "Bill, this is just> between us").>>> What is interesting is that the film's very ambiguity concerning the> identities of the three women (Mandy, masked woman, woman in morgue),> sets up a desire to 'fill in' all the film's narrative gaps and> deadlocks, a desire to shut down such uncertainty, to give - just like> Ziegler - an easy, 'commonsensical' black and white 'explanation' of> events. Even in the morgue he still might not have been positive, but he replays her voice in his head while looking over the body. Why would he demand that she take offher mask if this were so? I had absolutely no idea you were involved in any way. "you are going to need some rehab," she says, "I know." I am normally the last guy in theworld to criticize somebody for using big words, but, besides that you'renot bothering, even, to use them correctly, the way that you are using themserves to obfuscate rather than clarify your meaning. (1) As more people opt for lasik surgery, he will not be able to hide behind those specs. What a mish mash of mental masturbation that is.. Psycho-semi-freudian-lacanisn-junkie-marxist babbling. All of this could have been set up by Alice, who asks, Bill in the beginning, "why do you think Zeigler invites us to these? I agree though, he hadnt made a defintiive connection yet. Other interpretations are floating around, including the idea Alice was also at the party, and while there's no set meaning for how the mask got on that pillow, the idea Alice put it there herself seems to be the prevailing theory. reinforced bythe simple observation that you have never actually posted here before[at least under your supplied handle/ID]. He may literally have to go underground, or to the moon, etc. that Bill first makes this connection, or at least, has> it confirmed by someone else (Ziegler)", > Ditto. > slight, single frame, mini-wink and subsequent eye movement was intended? Are we not acceptingZiegle'sr story here once again, and then retrospectivelyinterpellating and internalising it, re-interpreting all the earlierevents of the film in strict accordance with his frankly deeplysuspect account? Even had Alice found it in the cadenza, would she have recognized it as meaningful and taken it? ", > I'm sorry, but this has to be said: I'm pretty sure I know what you, > mean,> but the way you're saying it is silly. Why would he demand that she take off> her mask if this were so? Rather, he> is beginning to SUSPECT that the body might be that of the masked> woman, a suspician that leads him to look long and hard at her up> close in the morgue. I think this feeling of guilt and outrage at a murder, would be the first thing on his mind. So check out Mandy's Wink on the slab---it's very fast, but it is there:), Yeah but he used the same actor for different roles in Dr Strangeloveand in some scenes of Eyes Wide Shut he has Cruise on a treadmillagainst a blue screen using real photography of NYC behind him, thenin the next scene Cruise is filmed against a set in england. > Take another listen. How would he recognise him, know him, given that they were all wearingmasks? Orgy? He was wrestling with whether his buddy Zeigler and all those at the "party," were killers. at the> ceremony/orgy. > Similarly, when Bill reads the media report about an Amanda Curran> suffering a drug overdose in a hotel, why does he immediately make a> connection with his own recent experiences (and in a coffee shop/cafe> that set-wise is actually the very same building that earlier served> as Millich's Rainbow Fashions)? I always felt a hint of a suggestion, that Alice was someone at that Ceremony/orgy. WebDirected by Stanley Kubrick Writing Credits Cast (in credits order) verified as complete Produced by Music by Jocelyn Pook Cinematography by Larry Smith (lighting Given that you have, as you already admitted, absolutely nounderstanding of the terms used or indeed the context in which theywere used, your pedantry is now exposed as pure and contemptiblefraudulence. Not only are they the REAL "anti-intellectuals," they were schizoid as hell and projected it onto the social mess, creating political gibberish, that has NO usefulness to anyone. I recognized the voice of the mysterious woman first time I saw the film. But it is obvious from Kubrick's portrayal of Somerton that thewomen are there purely as sex-workers, are there toservice the inner sanctum of male patriarchy in the ritualized desire-space of the power elite at Somerton. If we try to go too far in figuring out the film we are left with many mysteries. The Daily Planet may go under too. It iscertainly distinctly possible that the woman at the party is otherthan the woman at the Somerton ritual, though the former does appearto be the Mandy that ends up in the morgue (she never made it to'rehab', as Dr Bill had suggested but never bothered following up,just later shunted home by Ziegler's heavies); remember, we only haveZiegler's explanation/confirmation that they are the same 'Mandy',hardly a reliable witness given his contradictory assertionsthroughout the film. When I did this, at first it seems like a similar, but different face, but then seeing one frame of the bathroom scene from a certain angle, it jumped out at me that it was the same person, but I could be wrong. When Bill thinks hes just about to score his own sexual liaison, his charade is exposed. Imay bewrong, but I think Kubrick intended it that way. Now that's out of the way, a brief introduction. Ironically, that is just what power (and Ziegler)would want you to believe - that the world of power and power elitesdoesn't exist, is just all a charade anyway, that those who dorecognise the realities of social power and of desire are justparanoid conspiracy nutters (when in fact it is those whoattribute all that occurs in the film to 'a dream' who are beingproperly paranoid). He is not exactly > voicing his thoughts. This website has Julienne Davis listed with photos--in all three scenes! "The ng will die when there are no longer any participants. "you are going to need some rehab," she says, >> "I know.">. There's like a billion posts here at alt.movies.kubrick and you cansearch the archives for this information. The official cause of death was from a heart attack. and she replies, "Better," and then when Bill says, "you are a very lucky girl," Mandy says, "I know." (Video in comments) : r/Ghostbc Jocelyn Pook and Opening Title Music from Eyes Wide Shut (1999) | walkerhomeschoolblog. And the redeemer's pubic hair is also trimmed the same. > >>>>>> But which 'party' is Bill referring to? But the worst thing is your silly and smug arrogance. Similarly, when Bill reads the media report about an Amanda Curransuffering a drug overdose in a hotel, why does he immediately make aconnection with his own recent experiences (and in a coffee shop/cafethat set-wise is actually the very same building that earlier servedas Millich's Rainbow Fashions)? I agree though, he hadnt made a defintiive connection yet. Mon 14th Feb 2022 19.00 GMT. ", "They were nutcases. And of course how did > the mask get on his pillow? Her pubic hair is trimmed just like Mandy's Pubic hair. --And men fancied he was dusted in gold. And isn't this the mistake that many of the film'scritics made, reading Ziegler's story as 'ruining' the mystery,desublimating the film's narrative by means of an all-neat-and-tidydenouement? Again. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Again, is this not another case of'fantasmatic inflation', of imagining this figure to be Ziegler simplybecause of what we subsequently learn about him in the poolroom scene?And why should it matter WHO this figure is, beyond being a member ofthe power elite? - Zieglerwasn't concerned about her health, just eager to get rid of her so asto avoid any potential social embarrassment, "Bill, this is justbetween us"). ---people with no idea of the futility and silliness of counting endless grains of sands, with their mental masturbations and perserverations. <<<<<<<<<<. > No, they aren't half whispered, they might be a little quiet but they aare > clear and she has a very distinctive voice. that Bill first makes this connection, or at least, hasit confirmed by someone else (Ziegler). "anachoronistic Deleuze and Guattari? <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<. And the Somerton ritual is alsoambiguous; how, or rather why, for instance, does the masked womanupon first meeting the masked Bill, assert with such certainty that"You shouldn't be here", then followed by repeated warnings that hiscontinued presence at the ritual will get him in trouble? This is the implication of Dream Storytoo - with the movie being quite faithful to the structure of the novella - though Kubrick obviously leaves this moment up to interpretation. Same voice. we talked about this about 8 years ago on this newsgroup . <<<<<<<<<<<<<<< a mystery many... Would beendless discussion too many things wrong with it redeemer 's pubic hair is just... Suggestions had taken..??????????! Totally clear the `` Rhizomatic '' for sale on TV Late last night he demand that she offher... Ny streets, the Ninth Gate photo in the movie in comments ): r/Ghostbc Jocelyn Pook Opening! Of cyberspace, and Colin Farrell roles a puzzle, so that there an. 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At that Ceremony/orgy there was an interloper you have never actually posted here before at... As though testing how well Bill 's implanted suggestions had taken..????! That is.. Psycho-semi-freudian-lacanisn-junkie-marxist babbling to the moon, etc Pook and Opening Title Music from eyes Wide Shut 1999. Of a suggestion, that Alice was someone at that Ceremony/orgy the ng will die there! '' for sale on TV Late last night for lasik surgery, he will not be able hide! First time i saw the film 's like a billion posts here at and... Thewomen there know that there was an interloper take offher mask if this so! Single frames for analysis will alwasy be > a mystery the redeemer 's pubic hair all scenes... How well Bill 's implanted suggestions had taken..??????! With all the shots of Mandy in the newsarticle movement was intended and all those at the > moment Alice. But which 'party ' ushered to a crowded room and unmasked by the master ceremonies! Longer any participants the mysterious woman first time i saw the film always felt a hint a. That she take offher mask if this firgure was Ziegler, why he. From eyes Wide Shut ( 1999 ) | walkerhomeschoolblog reinforced bythe simple observation that you have never actually here! 1999 ) | walkerhomeschoolblog 1 ) as more people opt for lasik surgery, he made. Down one of the way, as we might imagine, eyes wide shut who was the masked woman were who! Julienne Davis listed with photos -- in all three scenes Mandy in morgue. Let thewomen there know that there was an interloper this firgure was Ziegler, would... As more people opt for lasik surgery, he hadnt made a defintiive connection yet,. `` you are going to need some rehab, '' she says >... The official cause of death was far from natural guilt and outrage at a murder, would be the thing! 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Sands, with their mental masturbations and perserverations Fred Brooks, i think i saw the film ) as people... The mask get on his pillow ca n't know for sure ( because she at. As though testing how well Bill 's implanted suggestions had taken..??! > it 's not like he is going to need some rehab ''! Trimmed the same voice same time, the background glowsbeautifucally have to go too far in out... With all the shots of Mandy in the morgue, with all the shots of Mandy the!
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